[Danielle Balocca]: Hey listeners, this is Danielle. And Shelley. Shelley is a radical Dravidian and racial equity activist. And Danielle is a community mobilizer and changemaker.
[Chelli Keshavan]: And this is the Medford Bites podcast. Every two weeks, we chew on the issues facing Medford and deliver bites of information about the city by lifting the expertise of our guests.
[Danielle Balocca]: Join us in discussion about what you hope for the future of Medford. And as always, tell us where you like to eat. All right. Thanks so much for joining us today. You could just start by introducing yourself. So saying your name, pronouns, and just a bit about who you are. Sure.
[Frances Nwajei]: My name is Frances Nwaje. I am the Director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion for the City of Medford. My pronouns are she, her, hers. However, I don't use my pronouns in meeting spaces. So when people look at my name, they don't see them because I need to give space for people who are not yet comfortable to share their pronouns. So that is, you know, that's one of the observations that people have made that they don't see my pronouns. And I like to explain that to them because everyone is not comfortable yet. And, you know, I want people to come when they are ready to come, share their pronouns when they are ready to share their pronouns and have a deep understanding of what that means. My office is located out of City Hall. I am on the first floor, room 101. And I am always open to engaging and meeting residents Medford. My role is for those who live and those who work in Medford. So always open to hearing new ideas, suggestions, and some, you know, sometimes in hearing new ideas and suggestions, you hear about the challenges that people are facing. So looking forward to collaboration and partnership as that is what builds community.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you, Frances, and we'll follow up on, I think, a few of the things that you brought up already. Before we do that, though, I want to ask you the question that we ask everybody on the podcast, which is, what is your favorite place to eat at Medford and what do you like to eat there?
[Frances Nwajei]: What is my favorite place to eat in Medford? Okay, so let us be serious. I am very concerned about my 20 pound weight gain since my start of working in Medford. You know, I'm a vegetarian, so sometimes that can limit your options, but not in the 02155. I mean, there is always something that you can eat and enjoy. And there is always somebody who wants to feed you. I have had the pleasure of having everything from, you know, just a local space down the road. at the square to, you know, places that are more, you know, more exclusive, like more meal style. So a quick slice of, let's say, pizza from one of our local pizza shops to like a lovely, delicious Italian meal from an Italian restaurant on the South Medford side. I don't, I'm not so sure that I can find one place. I seem to like them all so far.
[Danielle Balocca]: Well, I'm glad you've been able to get out and try some different spots and enjoy what we have to offer. I'm also a vegetarian and I found a lot of good places to eat and like lots of things don't have meat in them like doughnuts and ice cream, right? Stop it!
[Frances Nwajei]: You said the magic words. Ice cream and it's walking distance.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Access is important.
[Frances Nwajei]: Access is very important. And donuts. Oh my, yes. Lots of fabulous yum-yums all around in the many different parts of Medford.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Thank you for listening. Do you want to jump in? Yeah. All right, cool. So for those who are listening, Frances is a mentor, is a colleague, is a person who provides support to me on the regular, and I've enjoyed getting to know her since she came to us in April, am I? No, March, yeah. March. Okay. I was close-ish, not really. Very close. So I'm hoping to start out with a broader question and get your thoughts on DEI as sort of a burgeoning field. Just, yeah, talk a little bit about how this field has grown as sort of an occupation, as a role, as an identity, and what it means for cities to be onboarding said role. And then maybe a little bit about how that has affected Medford from your perspective.
[Frances Nwajei]: So, you know, what is the diversity, equity and inclusion. Really, I has always been around, however, we may not have seen it a lot on the municipal level. It is the real true office of affirmative action or some people may have been in spaces where there was an office of equal opportunity and civil rights. However, with the evolution of language, because that's what we do. I said this to someone yesterday. It's language becomes like fashion. Things evolve. We change language based on generation-based understanding, but it just is a recycling, right? When you say the Office of Equal Opportunity and Civil Rights, it sounds extremely technical. do people who are in the organization, corporation, actually understand what that office is? It sounds more compliance, which is really what DEI is. It's compliance. It is almost like your moral quality assurance check and compass for your agency. organization, city, town, school. And there are factors, there are legal factors that affect the scope of your work. Affirmative action is a federal law. It's guided by federal laws. So if your organization, town, city is acquiring federal funds, or if you have over a certain number of people, there are certain things that you need to track and you can't track them. range. How does DEI become your moral compass? Well, everybody's got a great mission statement and everybody's mission statement. We talk about, you know, we, you know, we strongly encourage women, people of color, I believe they've changed the equal opportunity term for minorities to state people of color because these are specific tracks, right? veterans and persons with disabilities to apply. So, you know, you slap that on there. That's great. That's just checking the books.
[Unidentified]: What are you actually doing to either bring those groups in or create a path, right, for those groups to apply?
[Frances Nwajei]: So the end comes like things like a reasonable accommodation, right? So I'm, you know, I want to really apply for the job. I've got the skill set. However, I'm a visual language user. For example, ASL. There needs to be a pathway for you to be granted an interview. You know, the, the, the organization or the group does not get to say, well, we don't have any ASL interpreters and that's going to take too long. No. So this is where DEI comes into place. How do we specifically recruit veterans? It's not enough to put words on paper. What are the actionable steps that you are taking to bring things to fruition? So, you know, that's more of the broad compliance scope of DEI. Amongst that, policies, right? We've all been involved, we've all probably worked in spaces where certain policies sound great. But sometimes in writing a great policy, you're creating a hardship or a burden or you're marginalizing a specific. Right. So DEI again, uses that lens. And when we say, not just necessarily policies that are written by the organization, think about other things like contracts. So there could be language and union contracts. It's the responsibility of the DEI person to step forward and to, you know, alert. the leader and say, hey, I think that there is some concerns in this area. It is always a working, fluid, moving relationship. How do you support your internal staff? If you have internal staff that are Black, Indigenous, or other persons of color in a workspace that is primarily or dominantly How do you support the staff to feel that they are a true part of the organization? And it's too painful because you have to provide spaces for the staff. to feel that they can express what their concerns are. An expression of concern is not a, somebody's doing something wrong. It is how that person is feeling. If that person is not feeling supported, they cannot thrive, right? And you have to provide education to the other space because it's 2022. And there are still people who have never worked alongside anybody that is different from them in any visible way. Now let's look at the other aspect of DEI where confidentiality really comes into play. somebody has a disability. There are visible disabilities and there are invisible disabilities. Those don't belong in HR. Those are shared in confidence or disclosed by that person, that person's choice to the Office of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, to the Office of Civil Rights, to the Office of Equal Opportunity, People, Culture, and Belonging, whatever the name is now. And you keep hold of that. It is separate from the personnel file. And, you know, I think, I feel I've had the pleasure of being in the role prior to the murder of George Floyd, prior to the pandemic. So I had a pleasure of working in the role in a different space. What I saw happening, though, was a reactionary response to the murder of George Floyd, but without the preparation that is needed. And I say that because, you know, I review a lot of agency, organization, and corporation job descriptions, because you also have to do your own education to stay one step ahead of the game, to see where the trends are, what's going on, what could impact your hiring, what could impact your retention and promotion for your organization. And I read some of these job descriptions, and I said, well, people don't get it. Your DI person is not going to come, be hired, right? and create a space of what I believe it was cultural humility. That's a term, putting it in air quotes, because that is a term that I have stolen from my colleagues, Shelley, cultural humility. Hiring a DEI person does not automatically create that space. That is just, okay, you can check that box that you've brought somebody on board. Now, what is that person going to do? And some of the things that I have seen, you know, around are not realistic. In that testament, even in the way the job descriptions are written, it says to me, you still don't understand. You're operating from a reactionary place. When you see language like, within the first three months, a person will do this. You cannot put a timeline on it. We're working with humans. I see this from a humanitarian lens. If you have a culture that is embedded in working in a certain manner for a certain period of time, it is going to take double or triple that time to effect the change that is needed. Reframing an organization does not happen overnight.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Chelli Keshavan]: So a person with maybe a Chelly lens or maybe a Medford Bites, maybe a Chelly Danielle lens might wonder, is there a supremacist sort of structure that aligns with this onboarding of the DEI role? To your point, after Floyd, we see agency after agency. Boom, we have 100K for this DEI role. We're going to onboard this person, we're going to arbitrarily designed deliverables that we need in three, six, nine, 12 months, and the role will likely be onerous and burdensome and take an incredible emotional toll from whatever individual steps into that role. What are your thoughts on that perspective?
[Frances Nwajei]: So what I, what I genuinely feel is I'm not sure if it is a supremacist, um, like foundation. I just think that people really think that you put, you change the words around and it changes the meaning. Research needs, yeah.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Research in addition to your point. Instead of looking at hiring data or salary data or attrition rate or following the dollars, what if we just add this one role and then kind of wash our hands of the actual shakeup of infrastructure, which is... I have seen, and that is exactly what I have seen in a lot of organizations.
[Frances Nwajei]: you know, I belong to a white group of a support system for regional DEI people. And that is what I have seen and heard in my role and career as a DEI person. It is a lot of, OK, we're going to get this role and this person is going to do this. fabulous, but you have not clarified the vision to the current people that are there. But even more importantly, you don't have an understanding of the role because there were so many other components that have not yet been done. For example, do you understand your organization? Right. Right? That's the very beginning. And an internal person, internally, that understanding does not come from internal. It has to come from external, because external means that whoever, whether it's a consultant, a study, can be as objective, right? And is it living the status quo? Right, right.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Well, that equates perfectly into a next thought. In 2020, the city of Medford declared racism a public health crisis. And I feel like irrespective of what people's reactions, we saw a lot of very quick moving political energy kind of pop up all over the city since Floyd. For all of the understandable reasons, people have to figure out whatever their new normal is. They have to kind of come out of lockdown. That means a lot of things for a lot of different people, their families, their children, work, whatever. And things move and shift. To your point about what is the vision? What are we doing? What do you see as the potential pipelines to you? really, you know, get back in touch with that energy and leveraging in the goals, around the goals and moving forward.
[Frances Nwajei]: So what I started to do was part of what actually attracted me to the city of Medford was a social justice roadmap that I read. You know, I'm not from Medford. I don't live in Medford. So when I read that, I was like, well, 2018, all right, I need to look at this 02155 a little bit closer because they seem like they want to do something. It predicted what was happening. in 2020, and I started to take a closer look at it. You said something that is extremely important. Racism is a public health crisis, period. It's a public health crisis, you know, and many people that I have worked with along the way have actually expressed whether or not being a person of color can be looked upon as a disability, given their lived experience in a variety of different spaces that have been unpleasant. So yes, racism is a public health crisis. Looking at the social justice roadmap, I was very attracted to the way that things were raised me and choose some of the work plans. Coming on board, I had to figure out, okay, who do I go to? Who is in charge of what? I realized that the Office of Prevention and Outreach was already doing a lot of equitable work a lot of equitable work on a broad health spectrum. Without calling it DEI, they were really approaching their work from like an equitable lens. Then I contacted our police department. I thought that I would have to start from scratch.
[Unidentified]: with the police department did not realize that they are actually a little bit ahead of the game, i.e., social work, which requires a different style of address for our unhoused people who are not committing a crime.
[Frances Nwajei]: They're unhoused, or our people that may have mental health challenges. And they were already coordinated. And I also realized at that point that there was a whole nother unit, like a lot of what I thought I would have to help build was already in existence prior to my getting there. So that gave me hope and I used that as the springboard.
[Unidentified]: Fortunately,
[Frances Nwajei]: As I sprung, I was caught and welcomed versus caught and pushed away. And when I say caught and welcomed, in, I mean, in terms of conversation, where I, not the, not the resistance that many of my colleagues that work on a municipal level face, real genuine conversation. So there is, you know, unfortunately there are certain aspects that I can't discuss. Of course. But there is, there is a level of understanding of what my expectations are. And I think the biggest honor for me was when our chief and lieutenant walked into my office one day and I thought, oh dear, they're coming to bring news that is not going to be palatable. I shall just prepare my game face. It was to have a conversation with me. This was in end of, yeah, it was April, was mid April. To have a conversation with me about bringing on the, I think like a step two of their plan, bringing on a consultant for a series of trainings, workshops and seminars. Okay. So we had that conversation, I think we'd spent about 45 minutes and it was great, you know, and then they left and I was like, all right, maybe it's just another check the box thing. I says, well, I'll test the waters. I called, it was the last week of April. I called and within a two week period, consulting to myself and the chief, and the lieutenant were already engaged in a meeting. So it wasn't, you know, and I say this because it wasn't just words and, oh, okay, let's get together. Well, why don't we schedule something for two months from now? No, it was words followed by immediate action. Yep. A meeting was supposed to be an hour. The meeting was two and a half hours long.
[Unidentified]: Yeah. You know, and it was a real discussion. about internal blind spots, addressing internal issues and working to build something.
[Frances Nwajei]: Because as we all know, it's, it's true. It's not like one-time training. Everybody goes for two hours and then we come out. Oh, we're all enlightened and we're all different, you know, to build something. I, you know, I'll use the word curriculum for lack of a better word that could address the vision and drive.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah.
[Frances Nwajei]: And that was huge.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah. I'm curious, I think as you've been talking, what I think about a place that is implementing like a DEI person in this way that especially, you know, in the climate and like the climate of, you know, as Chalene was saying, this like speed to address racism in our city, that I think that there can be this assumption of like, OK, like we're on board with this. We're going to listen. We're going to try. And and I think like like you all were saying, that puts a lot of pressure on the person in that position. And as a white person, like I've learned that like There's a lot that I've had to look at that those the people in those roles have to look at like I'm part of this system that is creating this environment that might not feel. equitable or like a safe space for folks that aren't white. And so I wonder, like, I think there can be like all this energy in the beginning of like, yeah, we have this plan. We're going to take these steps. We're going to work with a consultant. And so hearing that that was back in April, I'm wondering like what you've seen since sort of how that follow through has been and where you hope it's going.
[Frances Nwajei]: So I would say that it has been great. Now, remember, because I'm one person for the community, I've had to do things in chunks because that's what's manageable, you know, and that's what's realistic. So I'm happy with where I am at this point with them. We're at the stage of let's now create. What is this going to look like? Because more than likely, I will be time, you know, I shouldn't use the word time, but I will be utilizing a consultant's time for an extended period. So we don't, you know, it's not a blanket approach where we're giving the foundations of bias. If I'm working with the police department, right, we need to understand their issues. We need to have a little bit of understanding about their guiding principles. Very different, not what we wrote, but their guiding principles, their foundational mission, right? and their experiences so that we now design something that is going to be realistic, a realistic approach, experiential learning. not your standard we're gonna sit here and everybody watch this video and let's talk that's not realistic for them because what they might face different from me. So we are at that stage which is huge but in addition to that I've been invited I get invited to their oh my gosh community engagement meetings when they, you know, when they're putting on big events and I get to sit, I get to listen to their plans, I get to chime in and say, that sounds great or that's absolutely horrible. Like, why would you have a poster like this? Like, I would look at this and not feel, you know, like this speaks to me, right? But it does not get to be confrontational. I get to hear certain logistical things like, Well, we didn't really have, you know, much in our database to use. And I get to provide guidance and advice. And then I get to sit back and see improvements. But I also get to see wonderful things like the diversity of new hires. So I've only been from, I would say March to now. I went in one day and there were seven people in the chamber. And I was shocked, out of those seven people, four. And when I say would fit the EEO4 category, I'm looking at this through the strict lens of if I was reporting for the federal government.
[Unidentified]: Sure. Four out of seven. I'm talking about women.
[Frances Nwajei]: talking about when people of color, some set multiple categories. And that is huge. Because when we think about the current state of the police department, we still don't have a lot of women across the board.
[Unidentified]: And a lot of the men of color in
[Frances Nwajei]: Law enforcement across the board, speaking nationally, that came on board with the origin of affirmative action, as I learned yesterday there at retirement age. You'll be all soon to be retiring. Learned this yesterday. And then what does that do? So it is important to have, you know, your law enforcement and your municipality that is really actually serious about DEI. And then I got to hear about our own situation where there were actually more candidates. The candidates didn't make it because they couldn't pass the physical. And I'm being asked, do you have any ideas or any suggestions? Now I'm like me, I just gained 20 pounds in my little time, you know, but that, those, those types of conversations are authentic conversations. And it says to me, someone is trying that is bigger than any wonderful thing that you can put on paper.
[Chelli Keshavan]: So this brings up a conversation, Frances, that you and I had, and you shared something brilliant with me, and it's been on my mind maybe for months at this point. You had quoted a colleague around a conversation of the difference between allyship and co-disrupting. And we were discussing the potential dangers in having folks moving out in the world, self-identifying as allies, and sort of maybe even historically putting on a hat in the morning and marching around in space. kind of carrying an identity that may or may not be real. And I was wondering if you might speak to that.
[Frances Nwajei]: Yeah. I, you know, I think it's really important when people use the terms and say they're an ally or they're a co-dis, or they're a co-disrupt.
[Unidentified]: I'm both, you know.
[Frances Nwajei]: And when I say I am both, it means that I will always do what is right to raise the awareness as an ally, to stand by and support, not stand up for, because I do not wish to take the voice away, but to stand by in support of the individual. And if called forward by that individual, then I will speak. As a co-disruptor, I will step in in the moment. I'm not going to wait till it's safe or comfortable. As a co-disruptor, if I witness, I am stepping in at that time because that is when that person or that group will need me the most. And there are many different ways that one can step in. you know, I like the bystander intervention style where you shift the focus back to the individual, back to the group, and you draw so you are not giving attention to the doer. of the action. And I think that it's very important for people to understand when you were speaking with marginalized groups and you were flying the, I am an ally flag, What are you doing as an ally? It doesn't have to be big. I mean, if you're only stepping into the space once a month for a meeting, I'm sorry, you're just checking the box. If you're only just showing up, you're just checking the box.
[Unidentified]: There is a responsibility associated with being an ally. and there is an expectation associated with being a co-disruptor.
[Frances Nwajei]: If you are my ally and I am in a space where, let's say, something happens, right?
[Unidentified]: Do nothing, you say nothing. But afterwards,
[Frances Nwajei]: You come back and check in with me. How exactly are you supporting me? Whatever relationship that we have built is questionable. And a lot of times, when I have challenged people that say that they're allies, the response is, well, I didn't know, you know,
[Unidentified]: you to do, then why didn't you ask the question?
[Frances Nwajei]: Why didn't you ask the question? Because had you simply asked the question at that moment, Francis, would you like me to intervene? I might have said yes, and I might have said no, but I still would have felt supported.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Talk about the tension between being an ally on paper and the emotional work that it takes to actually be an ally. I sometimes wonder about the archetype of person who would like to call themselves that ally, but actually isn't available for, in my mind, if you're showing up properly, then you begin to adopt some modes the lived experience of the person you are claiming to support. And if that hasn't happened yet, then you probably are not showing up as an ally. So maybe you can talk to the tension there.
[Frances Nwajei]: So what I feel is that, again, you know, it's with language, right? A lot of people have embodied the term ally. But those who have embodied the term ally are people that actually have a good heart. And this is not about having a good heart. Nobody's here to challenge your good heart. Your good heart and your good nature is welcome, but it's detrimental, I mean, if you don't really understand the foundation of what's going on. And that's where the tension gets You know, it starts to drink at that level.
[Unidentified]: It is best to say, I want to stand in support. Right? Than to say, oh, I'm an ally. I appreciate that.
[Frances Nwajei]: You know, because you want to stand in support. It gives you an opportunity to weigh your own comfort level, right? You say you're an ally, then I'm going to order you. I'm going to help organize this. I need you to do this. I need you to go deliver this here, right? And then you get all, you know, you start to spin because that's not at your comfort level, right? And then you start to either back out or provide excuses or just like ghost out.
[Unidentified]: So a good heart is always welcome, but allyship is something different.
[Frances Nwajei]: It is a mission. It is, it is your willingness to put your boots on the ground and do something.
[Unidentified]: It is the next, it is the next step.
[Chelli Keshavan]: What is your sense of the difference between diversity initiatives and pro-Black agendas?
[Frances Nwajei]: Yes, the word diversity. Diversity initiatives and pro-Black agendas. Oh, that's a loaded one. So let's see. How can I sum this up?
[Chelli Keshavan]: There's only one more question after that.
[Frances Nwajei]: What is the diversity initiative? And what is a pro-Black agenda? For me, it always is, what is the ultimate goal? That's what I look at. look at what's the ultimate goal. I would describe myself, my clinician friends who listen to this will understand what I'm saying. I use more of a backward chaining method, right? When they teach me how to make a sandwich, I need to taste that sandwich first so that I'm motivated, right? you know, and then step back, step back, step back, and I learn the process backwards and then I'm able to do it from the beginning. So for me it's really what's the ultimate goal or who is that goal serving? Because sometimes, you know, sometimes get caught up in words diversity initiative. There are still people who think that my role is to come and run multicultural events. So what is the ultimate goal? What are we trying to do? We want a healthy community. Okay, first of all, are we all on the same level as to how we define health? Okay, now we're on the same level. Now, how are we going to get that healthy community? This is when you bring somebody in to help us identify our barriers.
[Unidentified]: Through that, you will find little tributaries.
[Frances Nwajei]: part at different aspects of our community are going to need more or are going to need less. It is not that one is more important than the other.
[Unidentified]: It is simply that the need is greater. Then you look at what can we take on and please make it realistic.
[Frances Nwajei]: Sure. Please make it realistic. What do we have the resources to do? People who have worked with me will understand that I am a one, two, three goal person, no more. And if it's one goal, let's take that one and let's hit it out of the ballpark and ensure that it is going to be sustainable and organically move on.
[Chelli Keshavan]: So with that I will wrap up with one last question which is what can the City of Medford do to support you in this DEI role?
[Frances Nwajei]: What can the City of Medford do to support me in this DEI role? I think the first thing that I would love everybody that is listening to understand about me is that For me, this role is both personal and it's both professional.
[Unidentified]: This role is not political. I don't get to take my blackness off and relax. I live this, I walk this, I speak this.
[Frances Nwajei]: It is important that when people approach me, that they understand that I am truly giving of my authentic self. And they utilize the information that I share, the knowledge that I have, in a manner that is for the greater good. And that's for all members, all members of the city, community members, people that I work with. It is also learning for me because I am navigating multiple different spaces, which will shape my experience, which will shape my lens.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Thank you, Frances.
[Unidentified]: You're welcome.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Yeah, we look forward to hearing how shades continue to grow. Your time and energy, and I am sure we will talk soon.
[Unidentified]: Okay, thank you very much. Thanks, Frances.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. The Medford Bytes podcast is produced and moderated by Danielle Balacca and Shelly Kisherman. Music is made by Hendrik Irenys. We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast. You can reach out to us by email at medfordpod at gmail.com, or you can rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts. Thanks so much for listening. Guys, what's the name of the podcast? Never Bites. Never Bites. Good job.